The Mando'a Bible Translation Project

[DiscWarrior]

As long as this is still going, I might as well contribute my efforts.

The very first thing I did after leaning about Mando'a was to translate the first chapter of John. I can't seem to find my original translation, though I'm sure it was ripe with errors. I do use 'El' as God. As far as I can tell, there is no confusion with any other word in Mando'a, and this is the original Hebrew name of God. Or, at least one of them. Instead of using any particular English translation, I use either the original Greek, or Hebrew. Our English translations are just that, so in order to preserve the original ideas and concepts as originally written, I use the original language. I do not speak, read, etc., either Greek or Hebrew so I use an interlinear translation for this.

Here is the first paragraph of John translated:

Sha maan'la cuy haar miit, bal haar miit cuy ti El, bal haar miit cuy El.
Kaysh sha maan'la ti El.
Ankebise ru'olar lo cuy'la adol Kaysh, bal dar'tome kaysh naas ru'olar lo cuy'la meg ru'olar lo cuy'la.
O'r Kaysh oyar, bal haar oyar ru'cuy nau at adate.
Haar nau tranir o'r werde, bal werde nu'suvar.


Here it is in English:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The theology is as important to me as the correct Mando'a is. Any and all feedback is appreciated.

[Aarlaya]

I'm not showing up to help (sorry), but it occured to me that eventually someone's going to have to translate the Sermon on the Mount. Good luck getting that into Mando'a.

[Belandrie Meave]

Whoo. Nayc osik.
I foresee heavy use of the nu'- prefix.

[Ge'tal Buy'ce]

Whoo. Nayc osik.

Hey, sacred mountain, watch the language.

I haven't had a chance to read through all of this, but I saw someone wanting Sermon on the Mount and thought CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. So someone let me know if some of what I'm doing is reinventing the wheel or stepping on someone else's work.

Also, I'm changing up the narration slightly. In English, it's customary to narrate in the past tense, but past tense in Mando'a is pretty unwieldy, so I'll be writing in present tense except where explicitly referring to something that happened prior to the current point in the text.

Matthew 5 (NKJV)

1. And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain and when he was seated His disciples came to Him.
Kaysh haa'tayli ori'sol adate, bal slana laam cerar. Kaysh shebe, bal maan'urman'ade olaro at Kaysh.
He sees many people, and goes up mountain. He sits, and disciples come to Him.

2. Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
Kaysh tengaana uram bal ba'juri val, sirbu:
He opens mouth and teaches them, says:

3. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Boracyk gana riye'miite, cuyi be laamyc'tra.
Poor have blessings, they are of heaven.

4. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Echoyse gana riye'miite, gyce'gana mirjahaal.
Mourners have blessings, they shall have peace of mind.

5. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Nekabla'ade gana riye'miite, gyc'as'gaani diryc'vheh.
Meek have blessings, they shall receive the earth.

6. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.
Meg gana skraan'lini bal piru'lini par mandokarla gana riye'miite, bic gyce'haili val.
Who has hunger and thirst for righteousness has blessings, it shall fill them.

7. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Kar'galan'la gana riye'miite, gyc'as'gaani kar'galan.
Merciful have blessings, they shall receive mercy.

8. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Cin'runiise gana riye'miite, gyce'haa'tayli Te'Solus.
Pure souls have blessings, they shall see God.

9. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Naak'gotal'ade gana riye'miite, gyce'cuyi Te'Solus'ade.
Peace-makers have blessings, they shall be sons of God.

10. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Meg atinii or'parg par mandokarla gana riye'miite, cuyi be laamyc'tra.
Who takes hatred for righteousness has blessings, they are of heaven.

11. Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
Gar gan riye'miite tuu val or'parguu bal oya'kari gar, bal sirbu ori'dush jehaate be gar jorcu be Ni.
You have blessings when they hate and hunt you, and say evil lies of you because of Me.

12. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Sheresh emuur bal cuyi briikase, par gar ber cuyi a'oryc o'r laamyc'tra, jorcu val balyc ru'oya'kari T'solurame ru gar.
Seize joy and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, because they also hunted prophets before you.


New words:
Maan'urman'ade: disciple. Root words maan (original, first), urman'ad (religious follower, believer, faithful)
Nekabla'ade: meek, quiet, reserved (of a person). Root words ne' (negative prefix), kaab'la (loud), ade (people)


I know there's a lot more to the Sermon on the Mount than the Beatitudes, but this is all I have time for today. Work in progress.

[Belandrie Meave]

Heh. I use Mando'a cusswords as everyday 'swearing lite' and always forget some people can understand 'em.

Your v. 6 isn't quite right... it's passive-voice in the Bible (shall be filled) but Mando'a doesn't support that (argh) so if you could clarify who's doing the filling that'd be awesome. But otherwise it's pretty good, thanks for doing this!

[Ge'tal Buy'ce]

I think passive voice in Mando'a can be couched in "gyce'cuyi ru'[xxxx]", "shall be [past tense verb]." That said, to keep it in present tense, switching "they" for "it" might help clarify (at least as much as the original text does).

I wish targeted pronouns were a thing.

I'll return to these (and the Maxims) soon, but life got busy, so it'll be a bit.

[Aarlaya]

I like it, but I'm concerned about verse 3 there: a little bit of ambiguity between the "poor in spirit" and the open interpretation of "poor." But for real, colour me impressed.
How are ya'll dealing with the tense of the original Greek? I know several places in the New Testament, the authors use a tense that doesn't exist in English that refers to something that both is happening and will happen.

[Ruus]

Heh. I use Mando'a cusswords as everyday 'swearing lite' and always forget some people can understand 'em.

Your v. 6 isn't quite right... it's passive-voice in the Bible (shall be filled) but Mando'a doesn't support that (argh) so if you could clarify who's doing the filling that'd be awesome. But otherwise it's pretty good, thanks for doing this!

I think that it works, though. Mando'a doesn't support passive voice, and I think that in the translation it is obvious that the blessing are filling them. All in all, I like the translation and the avoidance of a lot of nu- prefixes.

[Ciri Rhaw]

This is an awesome project! I will definitely be back once I know more Mando'a. I just started learning seriously...

[Ge'tal Buy'ce]

Great to have you, vod!

Personally, I learned best by doing. I learned Mando'a (as much as I can say I've "learned" a language I can't converse in yet) by jumping in and translating something. It looks intimidating, but it's mostly English with different vocabulary and new prefixes and suffixes.

The two main resources I use are the main page dictionary and Tal'jair Rusk's Total Guide to Mando'a.
http://mandoa.org/dictionary.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8-c9y ... EtdW8/view

Best of luck, hope to see you around here more.

[Ciri Rhaw]

Great to have you, vod!

Personally, I learned best by doing. I learned Mando'a (as much as I can say I've "learned" a language I can't converse in yet) by jumping in and translating something. It looks intimidating, but it's mostly English with different vocabulary and new prefixes and suffixes.

The two main resources I use are the main page dictionary and Tal'jair Rusk's Total Guide to Mando'a.
http://mandoa.org/dictionary.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8-c9y ... EtdW8/view

Best of luck, hope to see you around here more.

That's good advice, I might do that when I have a bit more time.

[JustWriter]

These are a few new words I tried to create.
God- Te'Solus
Spirit- Te'Spirit
Jesus- Je'sus
Christ- Krayst
apostle (and variations)- shekem'ayst
to call- sirbaynur (so for called would be vensirbayn)

...
Any feedback would be great

Hi! This is so cool! I had an idea for the Holy Spirit, going along with what you said about translating ideas, rather than words themselves.

Instead of T'Spirit, had you considered finding synonyms for the Greek word paraclete Jesus uses in the scriptures? https://biblehub.com/greek/3875.htm

I looked up ghost first, and then ka'ra before even thinking of paraclete. So then I looked up advocate, some other words, help, and aid.

I found gaa'taylir (help: or hand that you know or hand that preserves), which you might be able to turn into helper, but I'm uncertain how; maybe an identity or person indicator like aliit, gai, or alii'gai (I'm new at Mando'a).

I also found ge'ver'alor (aide, which broken down is: almost lieutenant).

I know you’re trying to stay away from the use of Manda, but why not Manda'haat for true spirit or what about haat'tomad (true ally)?

For Christ, that is the Greek word for the Hebraic word Messiah, which means Anointed One and His Anointing. Jesus or Yeshuah is Hebrew for God saves. So, perhaps a word that means Savior or One who saves or redeems or rescues for Jesus and a word that has to do with the action of pouring oil for Christ.

Shosenla for submerged, might go well with baptism and you could include in oil for Anointed, with the word that means chosen, gaanla.

Please keep in mind, these are all just suggestions. I have nowhere near the amount of practice that you do with the language.

However, it's definitely important to know that you are translating (in the case of the Old Testament) an English translation of a Greek translation (the Septuagint [sp?]) of a copy of a copy (Persian influenced lettering) of the original (proto-Hebraic written language allegedly written by Moses) of oral traditions passed down from the time of Adam.

So, since we don't currently have access to the Dead Sea Scrolls preserved by the Essene Monks (driven out of their rightful place in Jerusalem by the Pharisee Priests), it's important to get as close to the original source as one can, if possible.

Some words in English don't adequately translate a threefold meaning in Hebrew or the nuance of the Greek. That's why I like BibleHub. It has concordance references and lets you know which Hebrew or Greek word was used in a specific verse.

One thing that majorly helps me when I translate or read scriptures is the context of the whole text (book, not just the chapter, sometimes books because First and Second Samuel were actually written in Hebrew as one entire scroll, but were divided into two when translated into Greek at the Library of Alexandria), and the context of who wrote it and why.

It's also important to lean on the Holy Spirit for guidance when rightly dividing the Word. One needs rhema, the living revelation of the text. So, rhema = mii'johayc be oyala'jorad be papuur'gal vutyc? (johayc: spoken, miit: word, be: from/of, oya'la: living, jorad: voice, galar: pour, papuur'gal: wine, vutyc: special) Wine or poured fruit was the closest I found for oil to describe anointed, so I added special. (shrugs) Of course, spoken word from living voice from special wine sounds kind of ridiculous.

You've inspired me, so I might translate Proverbs 3:5&6 as well as Isaiah 53 (and some other scriptures like the woman at the well) using the Mando'a dictionary. But I am nowhere near fluent enough for it to be perfect. I might try sounding out what I have and see what squashed phrases might flow better off the tongue. It could be fun!

[JustWriter]

I've only translated two verses, but I put a LOT of hard work into it. I used Strong's Hebrew on BibleHub https://biblehub.com/interlinear/proverbs/3-5.htm by going to the verse and clicking on the little string of numbers above each of the Hebrew characters.

I figured a Proverb would be easier than a whole section.

My translation of the verses are:

Johayc'e 3

⁵ K'ruusaan anyc Yehovaa ti gar ramikadyc bal ke duraanir b'gar suvaryc.

⁶ Ke kar'tayl b'Kaysh bat yustanay bal Kaysh ven naritir serim'briik gar goyuste.

Basically it says:

Trust completely Jehovah with your determination and scorn your own understanding. Know of Him on every road and He will put straight (correct-line) your roads.

I created a few words in Mando'a:

•anyc [ah-NEESH] completely [from words an (all) and ani (total, complete) with an -yc]

•Yehovaa [ye-HOH-vah] Mando'a spelling of Jehovah

•b'gar [beh-GAR] of your, your own, yours [from be- or b' and gar (your); could possibly change to garb, using the suffix form rather than the prefix form]

•yustanay [YOOST-ah-NAY] every road [from the words anay (every), yustapir (river, lit. water road), yustarud (perimeter), and goyust (road).]

•serim'briik [SAIR-eem-BREEK] straighten; literally: correct line

From Strong's Hebrew (Note: Hebrew is written from right to left, so I switched it around for your convenience.) I highly suggest using the above link for clarity:

⁵ Trust | in | Yahweh | with all
your heart | and on
your own understanding | not
lean

⁵ bə·ṭaḥ | ’el- | Yah·weh | bə·ḵāl
lib·be·ḵā; | wə·’el-
bî·nā·ṯə·ḵā, | ’al-
tiš·šā·‘ên.

⁶ In all | your ways
acknowledge Him | and He
shall direct | your paths

⁶ bə·ḵāl | də·rā·ḵe·ḵā
ḏā·‘ê·hū; | wə·hū,
yə·yaš·šêr | ’ō·rə·ḥō·ṯe·ḵā.

Here are my notes for Proverbs 3:5-6 (chapter 3, verses 5 & 6):

Ru Miit'gaana Mando'a (possible Holy Bible/Library version title as "Written Mandalorian")

Could rename the book Proverbs to johayc'e [JO-haysh-EE] as "sayings" or to jorbe'e [JOR-beh-EE] "reasons/reasonings" and could add be Salomen [SAHL-oh-MEHN] for "of Solomon."

Ruusaanyc / Ruusaar (trust in or rely on or have foundation in) or Ramikadyc (be confident in) Yehovaa [ye-HOH-vah] an or ani or anyc (all or completely) gar (your) kar'ta (heart) kovid (head) nasere (determination or resolve) or ramikadyc (determination or focus) bal (and) duraanir (scorn, hold in contempt) or ne or nu kar'taylir (don't keep in your heart) gar'ganar suvaryc (your own understanding).

Ruusaar Yehovaa anyc gar ramikadyc bal duraanir gar'ganar suvaryc. (Check if order matches Actor Verb Object Location (AVOL): He takes (the)weapon battlefield. Command prefix ke- before the verb.)
V: Ke'ruusaan O: ramikadyc
V: Ke'duraanir O: suvaryc
So: K'ruusaan anyc Yehovaa gar ramikadyc bal ke duraanir b'gar suvaryc. (treated it like two sentences so that's why there are to ke- prefixes and switched out gar'ganar for b'gar. Moved anyc so 'trust completely' is together. There were no locations in either statement.)

Ke kartayl'ani (verb, know fully) Kaysh (object?Him) bal Kaysh ven'ceratir (and He will point) goyust (road)

?Touch base with Him on every road and He will point/direct the way you should go.?

Ke kar'tayl (be aware) b'Kaysh (of Him) bat yustanay (on every road) bar Kaysh ven serim'briik (and He will straighten, correct line) dirycir (put down) or narir (act, do, put) or naritir (insert, place, put) gar goyust (your path).

Ke kar'tayl b'Kaysh bat yustanay bar Kaysh ven naritir serim'briik gar goyust.

I put naritir before my new word for straight so that it reads, "He will put straight," as serimbriik'gotal for "make straight" would be awkward. But I suppose one could substitute gotal'ur for naritir.

I belatedly made goyust plural by adding an e, fixed the bar into a bal, and added ti (with) to gar.

[JustWriter]

Okay all, I got sucked back in. I started finding words to translate "The Lord's Prayer", which is found in two of the gospels, Luke 11 and Matthew 6. Skip down to below the first section (on Hebrew cultural concepts) for my question.

___________________

I recently started studying Hebrew, so that should make things more interesting. Remember, the events of the gospels were generally spoken in and used the cultural ideas of the Hebrews, so even if it is written in Greek, those events were generally geared to reach Israelites. It's not really until the book of Acts that their target ministry changed to encompass all cultures, because of Jesus' parting instructions and the tongues of fire event prophesied by Joel occuring fifty days after the Feast of Unleavened Bread, on the Feast after that, where the bread is actually leavened. So, it's import to remember who Jesus' ministry (while in the flesh) was mostly geared toward.

So, if one doesn't understand the Hebrew word 'chesed,' then it will take forever for one to understand the love of God, which is the obligatory love of God, a covenant/contract word that is often translated as 'mercy' and 'lovingkindness' and similar words, but they never quite scratch the surface. 'Chesed' refers to both Israelites (children of the covenant, which remained faithful to God) and Christians (through faith in Jesus), since they are "the seed of Abraham," and this word and its variants (chasdo, chasdeka, etc.) FLOOD the Psalms. Similar translations of 'mercy' and 'lovingkindness' FLOOD the New Testament too. Look closely to find which of these Greek words may refer to the Hebrew concepts.

Another Hebrew concept, one that God and the Mandalorians agree on, is adoption. In the Hebrew culture, adoption is irreversible; one cannot disown an adopted son, the same way one can disown a son of blood, because one made a deliberate decision. A kinsman redeemer can buy the debt of their relatives to free them from bondservant-hood, or to return back to them the land of their ancestors. By redeeming us from the Curse of the Law, not only did Jesus restore the Blessing back to us (see Deuteronomy), but he irreversibly made us God's family, as co-heirs with Him. We became sons and daughters of God and the Bride of Christ. We, through that adoption, have received equal authority with Him in His Name/Reputation over the powers of darkness in the supernatural realms.

Details like that now illuminate New Testament passages for me, especially since the first fourteen (of twenty-four documented in the gospels, accounts, and responsas/Q&A letters) apostles' heart languages were Hebrew and Aramaic, with at least some understanding of Greek leftover from Alexander the Great and the following Greek kingdoms from which the Maccabees (Hammers) rebelled.

___________________

BUT one thing I mainly struggle with is translating the word for 'heaven.' The one the Mandalorian dictionary uses 'mar'eyce' and fandom are using 'ka'ra' refer more to the Hindu concept of Nirvana, or a physical place, rather than a celestial place. 'Manda' would seem to refer to the Body of Christ, and while that isn't the same thing as I was thinking of, it hardly seems like it would fit anyway, since in Star Wars everybody joins the Force. Suum ca'nara doesn't fit either; it's too vague, and it can be applied in the physical. Its definition seems more like heavenly than heaven.

I've come up with a list of Mando'a words that I believe could eventually contribute to a word for heaven, from the Christian and Hebrew concepts. In Hebrew, there are three types of heavens mentioned in a passage of scripture: the stars or outerspace, which Mando'a has plenty of words for; the supernatural realm, which Mando'a doesn't even have a singular word for physical senses; and of course the heaven which Jesus' Father is in, the Throne Room and beyond. Here is the list:

• taap (location)

• ashi (other)

• ka'ra (stars)

• be'chaaj (away/afar)

• suum (beyond)

• uvete (worlds; poetic)

• tra (space/void/star field)

• darasuum (eternal)

• yaim (home)

I've not worked on the grammar or conjugation for "The Lord's Prayer" yet, but so far I have:
• Our - Cuun
• Father - Jag'buir (compilation of man & parent) or Buir'alor (parent leader) or B'alor/Ba'alor (elder? from to and leader, used in ba'vodu uncle/aunt and ba'buir grandparent)
• who - meg
• art - cuyir/cuy/cuyi (conjugate)
• in - o'r
• heaven - taap (location) ashi (other) ka'ra (stars) be'chaaj (away/afar) suum (beyond) uvete (worlds; poetic) tra (space/void/star field) darasuum (eternal) yaim (home)
• hallowed / holy - ijaat (honor, conjugate)
• is / be - cuyir/cuy/cuyi (conjugate)
• Your - Gar
• Name - Gai
• Your - Gar
• Kingdom - davaab alor'tor (executing/carrying out ruler's justice)
• come - olaror
• Your - Gar
• Will - copad (desire/ambition) dajun (plan) narser (purpose) narseryc (determined/resolute) vercopa (wish/dream)
• be - cuyir (conjugate)
• done - ani (total/complete)
• on - bat
• earth - (in the physical realm) vheh (earth) me'suum (planet)
• as - sa
• it - bic
• is - cuyi?
• in - o'r
• heaven - (in the spiritual realm)
• Give - Dinu (give) naritir (insert, place, put)
• us - mhi, ner (me)
• this day - ibi'tuur/ib'tuur, jii (now)
• our - cuun, ner (my)
• daily -  (for today) anay (every) tuur (day) linibar (to need, +yc for needed/needs?)
• bread - shun

And, I'm also working on figuring out how to say supernatural realm (the second type of heaven), by figuring out the natural realm:

Five senses (touch, sound, sight, taste, smell):
• tigaanur (touch)
• aalar (feel)
• sur'ar (concentrate, focus)
• sur'gaan (picture lit. Focus/eye hand)
• sur'haai (eye)
• sur'ulur (keep an eye on, monitor)
• haa'taylir (see)
• haatyc (visible)
• sushir (listen)
• susulur (hear)
• kaab (sound)
• isirir (taste)
• kles (nose)
• klesir (smell)
• dawoor (bad smell)
• daworir (stink, reek)
• loras (meat, flesh, substance; poetic)
• agol (living tissue - meat, muscle, flesh - animal or human, *flesh and blood*)
• veman (real, genuine)

Thoughts?

[JustWriter]

I've also been working on translating the fruits of the Spirit:

Galatians 5:22->23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

My notes for it are much too rough, and extensive, to post at this time.


I am also interested in trying to translate the gifts and callings of the Spirit, as well as more proverbs, poems, and songs in scripture.

[Vlet Hansen]

Colloquially, you can drop several words from the prayer to make it more natural for Mando'a. In particular:

• Your - Gar
• Will - copad (desire/ambition) dajun (plan) narser (purpose) narseryc (determined/resolute) vercopa (wish/dream)
• be - cuyir (conjugate)
• done - ani (total/complete)
• on - bat
• earth - (in the physical realm) vheh (earth) me'suum (planet)
• as - sa
• it - bic
• is - cuyi?
• in - o'r
• heaven - (in the spiritual realm)

For this, I would propose: "Gar dajun vaabla, bat sa o'r [heaven]"
My reasoning for using vaabla here (to cover for the lack of a proper passive voice) is the seeming difference between narir (a relatively simple and discrete action, in my interpretation) and vaabir (implying the execution of a more complex plan) making it feel appropriate to me.

For heaven, one option that comes to mind is "laam'uvet" which I feel carries some of the tone you're looking for.

I'm not a huge fan of "davaab alor'tor." Personally, I think "tor" by itself would work as well. Conversely, I think ijaat would read better for holy in the form of ijaatla.

All this said, it's fairly nitpicky critique and you're doing great work!

[JustWriter]

Wow! A reply!

Thank you for your input. It's got me thinking on a whole other direction. How do suumt'ra or bral'uvet sound to you?

The bral is sticking with me, as I think of the Throne Room as a place of Authority for courtroom trials, or for war. I'm thinking of course of "The Secret Place of the Most High," from Psalm 91, and also of course "The LORD said to my Lord, sit at My right hand (a warlike reference) and make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." Plus, as a warrior culture, Mandalorians would enjoy the allusion to heaven being a high ground stronghold and a place of justice, even if heaven's enemies are not flesh and blood, but are supernatural.

I really like your suggestion of vaabla; it sounds quite natural.

[Vlet Hansen]

Instead of bral, how about keldab?

[KensokuT10]

• heaven - taap (location) ashi (other) ka'ra (stars) be'chaaj (away/afar) suum (beyond) uvete (worlds; poetic) tra (space/void/star field) darasuum (eternal) yaim (home)

I quite like the compound idea conveyed by daras'yaim or maybe darasuyaim (hm, feels clunkier) as Heaven being an "eternal home" for the souls of believers.

Loving the Hebrew influences and all the varied linguistic expertises and influences being brought to bear on this. It is WILD to see this thread still active after ten years and change. OYA!